Beyond England’s Professional Capability Framework (PCF)

00:01 Hi, my name is Tina Odu. My name is Eleanor Hogan. We're social work apprentices pursuing bachelor's in social work in the United Kingdom. Welcome to the Decolonize and Social Work Field Education podcast.

00:18 So, Eleanor, we have to incorporate every area of the British Association of Social Workers, Professional Capability Framework, or PCFs for short, in our placements and even prior to joining the apprenticeship we had to evidence that we knew these areas. It seems like a lot to start with, there's so many, the nine different capabilities that we have to meet and it can feel like a kind of mountain that you have to climb over but once you get into it you get used to it and you start understanding them.

00:48 I think we do need to start looking a little bit more at what else can come along with the, or move past the professional capability framework. And we also need to consider how we can promote human rights for the people we work with within this as well. Human rights is the basis of our professional capabilities framework here in the United Kingdom. It's not always clear sometimes how we as students in the United Kingdom.

01:15 can apply this PCF and our knowledge of human rights when we talk about promoting the human rights of indigenous people across the world. and I think it's key to think about how the human rights of one marginalised group, even if they are based in a different country, lack of representation of their rights can have an impact on other marginalised groups in other parts of the world. Yes, so what happens at local level

01:43 impacts the global level and vice versa. And we're going to hear more about this and the UN DRIP from guests today. So today we have two guests, Dr. Phyllis Ngai and our second guest is Shabnam Ahmed or Shabs Ahmed. Today's episode will be hosted by our very own podcast lead, Associate Professor Heng Li and Lisa Chen. Let's get into our episode today.

02:12 Beyond England's professional capability framework.

02:20 Hello, I'm your host, Daxia Hengli and Lisa Cheng, and welcome to our episode, Beyond England's Professional Capability Framework. The Professional Capability Framework is used by universities for teaching and assessment, but is deeply rooted in English laws, systems and social norms. This can make it feel exclusive.

02:47 rather than truly diverse and inclusive. My own journey has shown how true this can be. Before teaching or before becoming an associate professor, I was a social worker student from Taiwan here in England. I experienced this directly. I struggled during a student placement because my academic advisor

03:17 and a practice educator expected me to work in ecstasy in the same way they did. And my confidence, it left me thinking, if I have to act ecstasy like them, who is going to be me? My journey from Taiwan to the UK, from student to practitioner and to academic.

03:46 has been filled with moments like this. They've shown me we need to look critically at the framework we take for granted, and that's exactly what we are going to do today. And hereby, I would like to warmly introduce and welcome our guest speaker, Shabnam Mutt and Phyllis Nye. Shabnam.

04:15 Would you like to introduce yourself to the audience, please? Absolutely. Thank you very much, Elisa. That was really powerful. found your story really powerful. Thank you for sharing that. My name is Ashwagna Mahmed. I'm a registered independent social worker with a 26 years old working in a school with adults background. I'm also a very passionate practice educator.

04:41 which is a role that supports students while they're on a placement with learning opportunities and assessing their practice and ultimately deciding whether they pass. So it's quite a responsible role. I'm also a doctorate student and a assessor and a mentor and many other things, but I think what really brings me here is my interest in the work around decolonization really. Thank you very much.

05:10 I can really resonate with Lisa's story as well. And as a person who grew up in my mom's indigenous village in Hong Kong, and now I'm teaching in the United States, I can really resonate and feel the kind of challenges and also the strengths that Lisa talks about. Currently, I am a clinical food professor with the School of Social Work.

05:40 and the Director of the International Development Studies Program at the University of Montana in the United States. My teaching integrates social justice studies, indigenous studies, specifically global indigenous studies, and intercultural studies.

06:00 Thank you for the lovely introduction both of our guests. From your extensive experience as a social worker and as practitioner and as a property educator specifically, can you share your understanding of PCF and what are some areas where the PCF currently framing might not fully capture the nuance of cultural

06:29 competent and globally aware social work practice, particularly when considering the rights and perspectives of diverse communities, please.

06:46 Sure. Such an important question. Let me start by explaining what the PCF is. The PCF stands for Professional Capabilities Framework, as you said, Nisa, in the beginning. And it's been our framework here in England for social work, practice and education since 2012. And it's often applied from the point of entering of a student to their training. There are nine domains and just go very quickly, pour them out. Professionalism.

07:16 values and ethics, diversity and equality, rights, justice and economic wellbeing, knowledge, critical reflection and analysis, interventions and skills, context and organisations and professional leadership. So those are the nine domains. In terms of the PCF then and thinking like the gaps, first I would say as a practice educator and especially when I first became a practice educator.

07:44 I found these domains, the PCF, to be extremely helpful. And there's always a but isn't there? And just because something is working, it doesn't mean it's working to its full potential and it can be improved. I guess that led me to be as curious. How well does the current PCF then, the current domains, how do they currently prepare social workers for, I know you use the term cultured competence, but I don't use that term. I think competence.

08:13 Somehow, especially when I think about PCF competencies, it implies an almost finish line. So I like to use culturally intelligent or culturally attuned, globally aware kind of practice, I think is more central to rather than cultural competence. So I think in terms of the PCF, that made me question and be curious about how does the PCF support that? And I haven't got the empirical findings, but what I do have is my critical lens and experience.

08:43 And so when I look more closely, especially through that decolonial anti-racist lens, you start to see some gaps and those gaps can't be ignored. For example, if we take PCS3, diversity and equality, and if we look at that at the last placement assessment stage, so with the PCS, again for its national listeners, it slightly varies that the nine domains remain the same, but the internal

09:12 deeper expectations change slightly if you're in your first placement or if you're in your second placement or if you're a newly qualified social worker. So let's think about it through, and you can think about it either really, but if we think about it for somebody on their last placement, nowhere in that PCF3 do we even see the word anti-racist practice or migration history or impact of internalized oppression. That worries me slightly because the current definitions of diversity again,

09:41 They rely on very Western categorisations, race, gender, class, without questioning really how these concepts themselves might be colonial constructs. So I think the way the PCF is currently worded doesn't push us to ask these questions deeply enough or facilitate or support that teaching whilst the students are on placement. I always say a template is just a template. It's how we breathe life into it. So whilst adding some more content to

10:11 PCF 3 perhaps, is a good idea. Actually, it won't actually be the only thing we need to do. We need to think about training or retrain practice educators and social workers and higher education institutions and organizations in which the student is going to learn. It really imprints on the student's soul, but also the practice educator's soul so that the student, like yourself and your experience, doesn't have to be experiencing.

10:39 that Eurocentric lens or that practice that doesn't think about a decolonial lens or praxis. Yes, thank you very much, Shepnan. You rightfully said about working away or beyond the Western century or European century of mindset to look at the dormant. And that is why I think

11:05 will be time to draw Philips contribution in. Philips, you like to talk about the UN DRIP, for example, just too briefly to introduce what the UN DRIP is, and then move on to tell us more about what key aspects relate to Indigenous rights and the way of knowing that you believe are essential.

11:33 for social work education to address. Going beyond what is explicitly stated within framework like the PCF and like what's Sharpener just mentioned focused on the domain of diversity and equality, please, Felix. Okay, Lisa, let's take a few minutes.

11:57 explore together some ways social work education can help advance Indigenous peoples' rights in global contexts. What I mean actually, what I want to say is in global context, what I mean by that is the connection between the global and the local in practice context. Where should we start in terms of

12:25 helping to implement the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. This is the most comprehensive UN document about Indigenous Peoples' rights. It can serve as a guide and an end as a source of inspiration. The Declaration includes change outcomes that social workers should aim for. When we try to define human rights, we really need to look at how different peoples

12:55 define their own rights, Indigenous rights frameworks such as the UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples serve as instruments for analysis and assessment, for example, of the living situation of Indigenous peoples and as tools and methods for actions. Social workers must understand not only the global agreement, but also its impacts.

13:23 on indigenous peoples and communities. Some of you may be saying, no, I don't really work with indigenous people or in indigenous communities. I think that's not an excuse not to learn about indigenous people rights as a form of human rights. Social work educators must have the knowledge and tools needed to enable the next generation of social workers to live up to the spirit of these global agreements, including

13:52 the UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and gain the skills needed to facilitate its full implementation at all levels. Of course, knowing what the Declaration covers is not enough. integrate knowledge, to integrate Indigenous rights fully into social work, education, and practice, understanding of Indigenous rights must go beyond passive knowledge of

14:22 past colonialism, neo-colonialism, or post-colonialism as a universal condition, or laws and treaties as a set of standards and ideals. I think this is probably what Shambh was talking about. It's not just study the principles, but actually put the principle into practice. Social work education needs to equip social work students with action-oriented skills.

14:51 which in turn will impact national policies and local practices. I would also suggest that the underserved and the modernized include indigenous peoples. Social work education should guide students to be more involved in these policy decisions by being part of coalition building, networking, and the participatory decision-making processes in our practices. Thank you both.

15:20 Indeed, rights-based social work has become increasingly important if we want to unpack and deepen the meaning of each dormant and professional capability framework in England. Even though we don't normally emphasize or work with what's called the indigenous people population in England, but we can learn so much.

15:49 from different countries' experience and the way of thinking, indeed. So that leads to the next question I would like to ask Chef's response and expertise in terms of what practical strategies could field educators like practice educators and supervisors in England implement within the context of PCF requirement.

16:17 to encourage students to critically reflect on Western-centric bias and incorporate more diverse perspective in their practice, please, Sian. Yeah, that's uh such a critical question. And actually, I want to build on what Dr. Phyllis was already saying. I believe in order to achieve these steps need to be taken actually in a coordinated manner.

16:43 I think we need to think about this across all levels really. So micro, meso and macro. So for thinking about that at the micro level, every placement, every student's placement, I think needs to embed not only reflection and reflexivity, but decolonial reflexivity into supervision. And supervision is another real passion of mine actually. Supervision is a really important micro level.

17:11 potential intervention really to be having these discussions. And we could add some wording to the PCF3, diversity and equality, like we could add something like recognize diversity through a decolonial intersectional lens. But again, I would say that these words are going to need support to be brought alive. Just talking from my own experience of practice education, I've used tools like Professor Tedden's Mandela model.

17:40 which I love, which reminds us to make time through our acronym, NEMONIC, to acknowledge needs, to consider the differences, look at educational needs, life experiences and age. And I think this tool really facilitates, can facilitate these conversations. I've absolutely loved utilising them as a practice educator. But I also encourage students and anybody I'm supervising, particularly students, use a tool called Wheel of Identity. Really bring in.

18:10 the intersecting identities of the person you are supporting, assessing, advocating for. And think about the power privilege spectrum alongside this. But also think about history, think about culture, their culture. I think Dr. Chan Chibawi, her work is great on transracial adoption. I there are so many positive frameworks for Black, Brown, Indigenous scholars that we need to be making more explicit through our practice.

18:38 And in fact, I would strongly recommend universities get hold of a book really called the Anti-Racist Social Worker in Practice, which I've contributed a chapter to, but not just me, but our chapter, myself and my colleague, Jo Williams, is about merging two supervision models for anti-racist practice, particularly for the supervision space. But I think the thing is, through alongside all of this, retraining of practice educators is really important as well, because that's at the meso level.

19:07 And I think Dr. Phyllis, you touched upon some of this, is we have to liberate our thinking about suitable placements. Currently in England, most placements are placed, most students are placed in statutory services. And I just got excited when you were speaking actually, what if we could mandate more partnership with migrant led organisations, minoritised community groups, or even international partners to do solidarity work? If a student could split their placement between a local authority and...

19:37 Let's say a partnership with a Caribbean elders project to examine that kind of intergenerational trauma. I think it gives you a different perspective, doesn't it? A different exposure and an opportunity to hold two truths together, really, and bring them together. But again, I just want to finish off with the macro level because the truth is none of this will stick without macro level changes. And that means everything from teaching students, practice educators.

20:05 organizations, everyone to understand the colonial history of Britain really, so that we can align standards more with global framework, like the one you were talking about, but also think about embedding beautiful knowledge from a born to so you're born now born beyond Vivier. I don't know if I'm saying all of these correctly, but I love the idea of indigenous knowledge, all these levels, the micro, the mess, the macro.

20:32 They all interconnect because when practice educators at the micro level start asking their students different questions and their students then start asking different questions, they push at the meso level. They push the organizations to change, which creates momentum for macro level policy shifts. And I think that towel transformed social work education to something truly globally conscious and decolonized in my view.

21:02 Thank you very much. It's very rich and comprehensive and very thoughtful response. And before I invite Phyllis to come in, I just want to say about, couldn't more than agree with you, regards to the importances of continuing training and education of practice educator and academic as well.

21:30 especially when supporting students' placement, we are framing our expectation to assess students' performance. If our expectation is too narrative or too colonial, then that can be shaped the future social work practice to continuing colonial rather than decolonizing, isn't it?

21:58 So now I'm going to invite Felix to come in. Would you like to add or response to what Shabs just said?

22:09 I really appreciate your insight, how you connect all those different levels. I want to just elaborate on maybe by providing example, how we can be practical. So one suggestion I have for going beyond the PCF is that social work field education can provide training and opportunities for partnering.

22:36 with indigenous organizations locally, nationally, and transnationally to enhance the effectiveness of global efficacy for human rights, for indigenous people rights at the intersection of the global and the local practice context. So we talk a lot about global and global, and I want to say just a few words about the local level. At the local level, few educators

23:06 For example, can guide students to help build capacities among stakeholders. And this approach involves, for example, working with indigenous communities to defend indigenous cultures and identities. Building alliances have been at the heart of many of these successful advocacy campaigns. Ongoing fruitful community organizing or mobilizing involves supporting indigenous communities to advocate for themselves in particular.

23:35 local political context. those are some of the examples. think social work field education can pay some attention to. Thank you very much, Phyllis. And I think what we're talking about in terms of PCF is was really initially formed by English law, English policy, and English predominant

24:04 knowledge generators, which is from them, people in power, instead of a very diverse view and perspective in terms of how social work should be in practice. So that is something that perhaps can open up the debate or conversation after the episodes in the university in education sector and in practice.

24:32 is in placement setting in England perhaps. So I'm now going to move to our final questions. Before we close the episode, the final thought Phyllis and the chefs, would you like to talk about from your perspective, your viewpoint, what is one key step that social work education in England

25:00 could take to move beyond the limitation of the PCF and embrace a more decolonised and globally informed approach to field education, to social work placement in England. Yeah, sure. What a great question. makes me think, what would a decolonised PCF look like in essence? And do you think it would send, like I said earlier, I think it would centre anti-racism, but also gender equity.

25:29 not as optional extras, but as core to each of those nine domains that we were talking about. I think it would, social justice would be like a super domain running throughout. the reason I highlight racism and gender, the intersection between those is not to engage in a hierarchical repression politics, but just to acknowledge the urgency around this. And again, I speak from my experience, but also level of reflection from research and reading school anywhere.

25:59 When I've read assessments, portfolios, when I've audited work, I've found, for example, you will see the history of homelessness is captured. Yeah. And lots of information, the impact of a person's disability, say perhaps. But what I've never seen to this day of 26 years of practice is Mr. Khan and his family report repeated incidents of racism. I haven't seen how this might be impacted.

26:27 their lives as a migrant family. I've not seen Mrs. Smith or Mrs. Smith shared a repeated experience of sexism and being treated differently. And it's because as I mentioned earlier, I travel up and down the country and I was living in a workshop recently and someone said they were on duty, frontline phones. Someone called in and was sharing their horrific experiences of racism and the

26:53 person on the call, social worker said they just didn't know what to say. And of course they didn't capture any of that really. And yeah, that kind of, that saddens me. And I think the last thing I would add is that we had what you said, something Lisa stuck with me is also what the report that I was talking about when the PCF was reviewed last year, 79.2 % of the participants said, you know what? The PCF is still fit for purpose.

27:22 And I say to that's great. But what I also say is what you don't know what you don't know until you know it. And once you know, you must do something different. You must do better. And that's come out from my research really, because if we think about the Johari window and you've got that unknown area where if something is unknown to you, so as the practice educator, like you said, Lisa, if you're not implementing a decolonial lens or practice or demonstrating that as a role model.

27:52 Then you're, that's an area unknown to you. And then what the student, if that's unknown to them, then if we think about the Joari window, both are operating from that unknown area and then we cannot instigate change. And that's really important, isn't it? That's difficult. And just like the point you were making really. So I'll just stop there and give Dr. Pettis a chance to come in.

28:19 you for your sharing. Very inspiring. And you really are looking at the question from a broad perspective. And I want to again zoom back into the gap that I noticed not just in the PCF, but also in social education in the US and maybe in other countries at the global levels. I also see this gap.

28:49 about interpreting human rights for all people, including indigenous people, not being fully inclusive, even in the global definition of social work. So that would be my focus for my closing statement. I just want to reiterate what I mentioned earlier and to add to. In closing, just want to say social work curriculum must cover indigenous people rights, not just in the UK. oh

29:18 It should be in the US and all the other countries who endorse this declaration and indigenous pathways to address those issues should be included in social work, field education, regards of student intent to work within those physical boundaries of indigenous communities because this is a global issue, a human right issue and social work educators must have the knowledge and the tools needed to enable the next generation of social work.

29:47 the next generation of social workers to live up to the spirit of these principles, these agreements, this declaration, including the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, and gain the skills needed to facilitate its full implementation at all levels, as Shamb mentioned earlier, micromassal and oh also macro levels, the local and the global level, and also at the intersection of the local and the global.

30:17 I'll end there, back to you, Liz. Thank you for very valuable knowledge and experience sharing. And I really like an idea to expand the diversity of a placement learning. It's so difficult in England, as you may notice, that in England, the placement assessment is getting more and more promote in terms of rigorous assessment.

30:44 So it's quite restrictive to what Phyllis say about being local, very much locals focus. And that reminds me about I was self-funded for my MA degree in social work in England as international students. The tuition fee was really high. And while I graduated, I packed my bag and reached to go back to my country, Taiwan. And my mom just said, why?

31:13 And I said, oh, because I spent all the money from Taiwan, so I'm going back to work with people in Taiwan to pay back. My mom said, people are people. If you are social worker, you're helping people. Why you are matter about helping or work with people in Taiwan or eh elsewhere? So that reflects to what we're talking about human right, the rights of all people, talking about diversity and equality too.

31:43 people. Okay thank you very much and let's this episode. Hand over to Team Light in the Arena.

31:58 think it's something that I haven't realised before about how constraining it can be working towards the PCF frameworks as an international student. So hearing Lisa's experience really made me think about this and just wonder if there's any availability to allow some flexibility with meeting the PCF so people can express their creativity.

32:18 Yeah, it's very important that your positionality is appreciated and even during supervision what that means for yourself and for the people you work with and for me I can see the clear difference in environments where I feel like my positionality is being understood or appreciated or acknowledged. It makes working in such environments less challenging in so many ways and

32:48 So many other things fall into place. Absolutely. I agree with the idea of decolonial supervision, which was mentioned as well. And in addition, learning that the PCF was reviewed last year has made me want to know more about the recommendations and have more questions. What does that mean for us as students close to the end of our placement? And what would that mean for us as soon to be newly qualified social workers? Yeah, I as it said about

33:18 social workers are human rights workers and how we need to be prepared for the challenges within human rights. But it makes me wonder how can we do this when we know that there is a gap in our education with about human rights. And PCF has seemed like the most essential thing in our journey. And I think throughout the course of this podcast series, I've learned more and more about how we can be improved. And that has really challenged me in how

33:46 I would go about practice the rest of my placement and also thinking about future frameworks I encounter. is knowing that it probably won't be this perfect piece of framework and there can be more, there will always be more to be done to improve them.

34:13 You've been listening to the Decolonising Social Work Field Education podcast, Go About Dialogues for Change, an international participatory project with students, experts by experience, practitioners and academics, funded by the European Association of Schools of Social Work, led by Associate Professor Henglian Lisa Chen at the University of Sussex and co-produced by Mitali Kokani. Visit our website.

34:44 dialogue SWFE.org and follow us online. Decolonising social work starts with you. Stay tuned.